Saturday, April 20, 2013

marketplace BAN !!!

Look, I'm famous ;)  Seriously, this is just unreal ...
Here's a link to my initial post on flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mousesnook/8662104804/in/photostream  you may want to read it first. Not all the comments but the opening explanation...

Originally Posted by Jescissa         
Dear Ban Sidhe,

I am writing to you on behalf of the moderation team regarding your status as a Dealer and your recent activities on the Marketplace.

You registered as a Dealer on Den of Angels in June 2012 and agreed to abide by the rules for Dealers and Representatives as outlined to you when you were registered.

It has been explained twice to you that Dealers and Reps may not use the Marketplace for professional or business purposes, the first was when you were first registered as a dealer and the second was shortly afterward when you asked that your GOs may be reinstated.

It has come to the attention of the moderators that not only are you once again involved in Enchanted Doll eyes GOs through the Marketplace, but that you have also encouraged other members to 'shill' for you and create a front indicating that they are the GO host when it is in fact yourself who is actually hosting, knowing full well that this is not permitted.

The moderators are disappointed that you are circumventing the rules in this way and encouraging other members to break rules also; members hosting GOs are entirely responsible for organization, collection of funds, sending payment to the dealer (or artist or company,) and shipping items from host to participant. By asking other members to act as a shill for you, you have risked their Marketplace standing as well as your own.

The moderators have considered this situation and discussed it at length and we have voted to remove your access to the DoA Marketplace. You may appeal your Marketplace ban after 17 April 2015, but there are no guarantees that Marketplace access will be restored following an appeal. If you have any questions, please post in Ask the Moderators so that any online available moderator can address you quickly.

Regards,
Jescissa, on behalf of the Den of Angels moderators
 
My response:
 
Hello,

I just received the following message in my inbox and I must admit, I am completely shocked!
"QUOTE INSERTED"
Back in June of 2012 Guls207 asked me about possibly running a GO for me as I was told I could not do so myself in the MP. I told her she would need to contact the moderators as I did not know if this was allowed. She then got back to me and told me she was given permission to do so - that as long as SHE was the one hosting the thread in the MP she could go through me to place the order. Neither one of us had any intentions of 'circumventing the rules'. Again, it was my understanding that she was given permission to do this by a moderator. I have never encouraged anyone to 'shill' for me. If you are talking about Christina in FL, I was merely giving her the same opportunity to host a GO I thought Guls207 had be allowed...
Personally, I'm upset you would ban me outright without first contacting me and giving me the benefit of the doubt or asking to hear my side of the story. I did not hide my involvement with these GOs - as you can see, both girls openly stated in their threads that they were going through me. And this was because we were lead to believe this was NOT against the rules.

I am hurt that anyone would think I would not only break the rules on purpose but would go out of my way to be sneaky about it or involve others and possibly get them in trouble. If Guls207 was never given permission to run a GO then I truly apologize for my involvement but I believe her when she says she got a moderator's permission.

I would appreciate it if someone would look into this further - I feel this ban is unjust and a complete misunderstanding,

Ban Sidhe
 
Their response:
 
Thank you for contacting us.

Guls207 had permission to run a GO but only according to the rules for GO hosts. Her specific question asked if members may run GOs for products carried for dealers as long as that member was not the dealer in question. The specific answer to this question is yes. The moderators can quote her correspondence with us and the exact response that she received.

If Guls207 intended to run a GO and have the dealer closely involved in the order, she did not ask that question and if she had she would have been informed that this would not be permitted.

The rules explain that GO hosts are personally responsible for;
collecting money,
  • placing and receiving the order,
  • sending items to participants.
The moderators found that you were receiving orders and payments from participants independently of Guls207 and sending ordered items directly to participants as they came in, and not sending the entire order to Guls207 to distribute. By doing so, you were actually running this Group Order, directly against the information you had received (twice) from moderators and also against the explicit rules for GO hosts.

Since you had been told directly by moderators that you could not run GOs through the Den of Angels Marketplace, you could have also approached the moderators to clarify that Guls207 had indeed been given permission to include you in the Group Order.

Members frequently run GOs for items carried by dealers and none of those dealers have been personally involved in those GOs as you have been with these.
      


My response:

UGH - this is just a mess and I honestly don't know where to go ... First let me apologize for my part of the confusion.

1. "It has been explained twice to you that Dealers and Reps may not use the Marketplace for professional or business purposes, the first was when you were first registered as a dealer and the second was shortly afterward when you asked that your GOs may be reinstated."
I NEVER intended to break the rules - if you look up my PMs you can see, in my first question about having my ED thread deleted, I did not know I couldn't run a GO in the MP. The statement in quotes says I was informed when I registered as a dealer, but I was not. I had read the rules on the Dealer Registration page on my own, which does not say where I have to post and I did not learn otherwise until after I'd run 9 of them. It was an honest error and apologized. I did question the reasoning and asked for re-consideration - I even had a moderator confess to me that 'I slip through the cracks' in this issue but that it would be better to just abide by the request to post in the NEWS section, which I promptly did. There was never any malice in my intentions, conversations or questions.

2. I never saw the message Guls207 received and I never thought to doubt her when she told me she'd gotten permission. I just assumed what she told me was true - that she was allowed to host the order in the MP then submit through me as a dealer. It would not have been possible for her to accept the money and then send it to ED as they only accept orders from their dealers and for her to have taken all the money and then transfer it to me would have cost everyone extra paypal fees... The order would have been sent to me and then I would have had to send it to her, which would have incurred more fees. We were not being deceitful, we were truly doing what was best for the members of the GO and again, I thought she had gotten specific permission to run it this way. I would not have gotten involved otherwise.

3. I am personally offended that I would be accused of encouraging others to 'shill' for me. None of you know me personally, none of you asked me to explain the situation ... I am an honest person and being accused of something that is NOT true is hurtful. Guls207 approached ME about running a GO and I think it's is obvious that she and I both tried to do the right thing. Her question to you may not have been specific enough, which caused this confusion but she did ask, which shows her true intentions and she did admit on her thread that she was going through me, which I feel shows we were both trying to obey the rules and believed we had gotten proper permission.

If you still feel the need to ban me, I will of course abide but I would appreciate it if you all would again consider this matter. I truly believe it is all just a misunderstanding.

PS: This would be my first ban since being on this forum - I've been a member since 2009 and have good standing. To my knowledge, no one has ever had issue with me, is it normal to give a two year ban ?


Sincerely
Ban Sidhe


Their Response:

Hello Ban Sidhe,

The moderators have discussed your post and decided to reply to you by sequentially responding to each phase of your post. This reply could have been posted by any online moderator since we all conferred together. There are no senior or junior moderators and equal weight should be given to posts and PMs from any Den of Angels moderator.


Quote Originally Posted by Ban Sidhe
I had read the rules on the Dealer Registration page on my own, which does not say where I have to post and I did not learn otherwise until after I'd run 9 of them. It was an honest error and apologized. I did question the reasoning and asked for re-consideration - I even had a moderator confess to me that 'I slip through the cracks' in this issue but that it would be better to just abide by the request to post in the NEWS section, which I promptly did. There was never any malice in my intentions, conversations or questions.
Firstly, rule #1 for Dealers and Reps states that “If you sell through an online shop or company website, you cannot post sales threads in the Marketplace subforums for your shop or company's stock. The Marketplaces are for individual sales, not company or dealer sales. We ask that you conduct your sales offsite using your company's website or your personal email” and rule #4 states “Post a thread in News to announce a new release, special promotion, or a limited/highly irregular pre-order period.”

Since you said that you had read the rules for Dealers and Reps prior to registering as a dealer, you will have read these rules which clearly explain that as a registered dealer you cannot use the Marketplace in your capacity as a dealer for Enchanted Doll eyes and that as you are running Group Orders with irregular pre-order periods you must post a thread in News to make announcements of new GOs.

Having read the rules for Dealers and Reps, but somehow missing these particular rules, you continued to post GO threads through the Marketplace. When you were formally registered as a dealer and your GO threads were moved out of the Marketplace, in accordance with the rules that you had read, you queried this and the rules were brought up to you. This is the first time a moderator personally brought the Dealer and Reps rules to your attention.

A little while later, you approached the moderators asking to host GOs through the Marketplace again, and were told that the rules would stand.

In all, there have been three instances where you would have been aware of these rules; the first time when you read the rules for Dealers and Reps on your own. The second time when Zagzagael brought them to your attention when you were registered as a dealer and your GOs were removed from the Marketplace, and a third time when I responded to your post saying that the rules would remain the same and the Marketplace would stay as hobby-sales only.

In relation to your mentioning that "a moderator confess[ed] to me that 'I slip through the cracks' in this issue but that it would be better to just abide by the request to post in the NEWS section," Zagzagael was quite clear in what she meant as she actually said;


Quote Originally Posted by Zagzagael
"we are not quite sure how this fell so far through the cracks. I'm sorry. You are now being registered as a dealer."
This is specifically in relation to the moderators not registering you as a dealer sooner, and does not mean that your particular situation is any different from any other official company dealer on this forum, registered or not. Your dealership does not come under any 'grey area'. It is a very plain and simple, black and white issue. You are an official dealer for Enchanted Doll eyes and therefore you are responsible for following the rules for dealers and representatives.

Zagzagael was also not making a request of you to post in the News section. She told you that you can advertise your services and website in a News subforum thread, in accordance with the rules for Dealers and Reps; which you have now confirmed you had read before you were registered. Zagzagael's words were more of an expectation for you to follow the Dealers and Reps rules than it ever was a request. If you had chosen not to post in News you would not be advertising your dealership on Den of Angels at all, which runs counter to your intentions as a dealer to continue accepting GOs on behalf of Enchanted Doll eyes.


Quote Originally Posted by Ban Sidhe
It would not have been possible for her to accept the money and then send it to ED as they only accept orders from their dealers and for her to have taken all the money and then transfer it to me would have cost everyone extra paypal fees...
The moderators fully understand how Enchanted Doll orders are operated. You have mentioned it previously and Zagzagael explained to you then that we understand but also explained to you that how Enchanted Doll chooses to arrange their sales with their dealers has no bearing on how GOs are organised here. There is no grey area, or 'falling through the cracks'.

There is absolutely no reason why a member could not run a GO for ED eyes on DoA and use you as their dealer, however the GO host is responsible for collecting the orders and money and sending them to the dealer. If it is not done in this way, there is no way that GOs for ED eyes can be held on DoA. Sending money and orders directly to the dealer without going through a GO host is essentially a personal order, which can be taken care of entirely through your own site.


Quote Originally Posted by Ban Sidhe
The order would have been sent to me and then I would have had to send it to her, which would have incurred more fees. We were not being deceitful, we were truly doing what was best for the members of the GO and again, I thought she had gotten specific permission to run it this way. I would not have gotten involved otherwise.
However, that is how a GO though Den of Angels is expected to be run, and has not been a problem for the other registered dealers on the forum. A GO host on Den of Angels is required to be responsible for collecting the money from participants, placing the order with the dealer, receiving the order from the dealer and sending items out to participants. If someone wants to host a GO through the DoA Marketplace, they are agreeing to perform each part of the role of host.

It is the role of the GO host to coordinate between dealer/company and the participants of the GO, the dealer should not be contacting participants directly or shipping orders to anyone other than the GO host.

Since the information you received from Guls207 did not agree with what you had been previously told by moderators, did not agree with what is written in the rules for Dealers and Reps and did not agree with the rules for GO hosts, the moderators feel strongly that you should have come to us directly and asked if Guls207 had informed you correctly. If you had, we could have told you that she was wrong and also dealt with the fact that she was mistaken directly with her before a GO had taken place.


Quote Originally Posted by Ban Sidhe
This would be my first ban since being on this forum - I've been a member since 2009 and have good standing. To my knowledge, no one has ever had issue with me, is it normal to give a two year ban?
All bans, Marketplace or full forum, are to be considered permanent. There is the option to appeal after two years, but this is not a guarantee that the ban will be lifted. This was explained to you in the PM you received from me. The moderators have discussed this issue at length and have voted for this consequence because of the seriousness of the situation. You told us yourself that you have read the rules for dealers and reps. You have discussed these rules with two moderators. You know from previous posts in this subforum that moderators are only too happy to answer member queries about the rules, you only needed to post here regarding Guls207's GO offer and you would have had a response within hours and all of this would have been avoided. The moderators are not psychic. We cannot answer questions we aren't asked.

The moderators also feel it important that you know that of all the registered dealers and company representatives on Den of Angels, you are the only one who has ever had any complaints about the rules for dealers/reps and the way GOs are organised on this forum. Den of Angels is not a democracy and the moderators make decisions about rules for the benefit of the majority of members. We will not consider revising or removing rules that suit the majority for the benefit of just one person.

We will accept the appeal of your Marketplace ban after 17 April 2015.


My final response:

I obviously have no choice but to accept the ban - nothing I have said seems to make a difference (intentions and motivations count for nothing) but I would like to make the following points before I drop this issue:


1. When I said I "read the rules on the Dealer Registration page on my own, which does not say where I have to post" - this is the thread I was referring to:
http://www.denofangels.com/forums/sh...ration-Phase-1! I'm not gonna tell you I didn't see the rules on a page that clearly states them. When my thread was removed - THAT was the first time I was told.

2. I asked the mods to reconsider the rule to have dealers post in the NEWS section because no one knows to look there for any sort of dealer sales, websites, etc. :
http://www.denofangels.com/forums/forum.php People think this section is only for new announcements and the like. I was told this rule would not be reconsidered. That would be the second time I was told - and again, both times I was apologetic for the mistake and polite.

3. Zagzagael was NOT the mod I was referring to - I questioned a different mod on my own as there CONTINUES to be a misunderstanding of everything I say and the circumstances in this case.

4. Maybe I should have questioned you about the response Guls got but I guess I'm just the trusting sort and I never thought to question her, as letting her run the GO through me actually made sense ...

5. I notice no one addressed the rude assumption that I did any of this on purpose or that I encouraged anyone to 'shill' for me ...


have a nice day



PS: just so you know - that part about being told I 'slip through the cracks' is not an exaggeration. ED only does business with their dealers and according to the mod I contacted on the side, the MP rules do not take into account my situation ...

17 comments:

DLSarmywife said...

Wow, what a crock of malarkey!!! I am so very sorry that you are dealing with this hun! Sending you great big hugs from just a little ways north!

Anonymous said...

I'm sure that if you took some screenshot of some proof, as well as proof that you corresponded with that mod who said you "slipped through the cracks", you'd be taken more seriously??

Not the mention that the post you linked to for the rules that you read was just an announcement. >___>; there wasn't anything about rules in that post....

I don't see why you'd keep running a GO so shadily, even with someone else. Guls is awesome but it doesn't sit right. That's common sense, Ban.

Idk if you'll delete this, since it obviously doesn't agree with your view, but it's just a forum. If DoA doesn't want you, you don't need to be so upset, just join another awesome forum instead!

Becca said...

Unfortunately, no matter how valid your arguments are (and they are definitely valid), I think the mods are just trying to cover their butts and gang up on you as a threat to their authority. They were wrong AND rude, and they don't want to admit it, so they're never going to "see reason." Its unfair and a little bit despicable on their part; I'm glad you at least aren't losing much by being banned, since you said you don't use it much. :\ I have never been involved in DoA drama, but I have always found the mod team to be abrupt (if not downright rude) and unnecessarily aggressive in their communications. Nothing we can do about it, I guess. :\

...Hane... said...

That's a really shitty situation. DoA's mods are always rude and exalted towards "normal" forum users.
Glad you haven't use it that much.
Many hugs for you Hon :*

Dustbunnie said...

I'm so sorry this happened to you. The mods are right about one thing though: DOA is not a democrasy and they have all the power. There's nothing to do but to accept their rules. They were rude to accuse you of doing this on purpose and I'm sure if you had done it on purpose you would have done your best to hide what was going on - wich you didn't.
I actually saw you had been banned on DOA and was wondering why. Then I decided - because of the way I see you as a person - that you had accedently broken one of their quite "square" rules.
I remember when they changed the rules about group orderes. I always felt that they did that directly aimed against Forbidden. And it really sucked for people living in the EU because we can't host group orderes because of customs.
Anyway I just wanted you to know that I never thought you would do anything dishonest.

Ban said...

Deb - Thanks hun. Can't wait 'to get our dolls and have a mini meet!!!

Anon -
1.that PM was almost a year ago, I didn't hang onto it but even if I did, I wouldn't show it to anyone as I wouldn't want that mod to get in trouble - she's obviously in the minority and I think we both know it wouldn't make a bit of difference.
2.I know the post I linked to was an announcement but at the time I didn't, which is why I posted a GO in the wrong section the first time. I was notified and apologized for my error.
3. I didn't continue to run a GO 'so shadily' - in case you missed it the first 100 times I said it WE ASKED PERMISSION. Nothing Guls or I did was shady or meant to break the rules. If we had meant to break the rules, we could have covered our tracks; we openly TOLD people what we were doing because we believed we had been granted permission. (seriously, how many different ways do I need to say this?)
4. If you think I'm gonna delete this post because YOU don't think it agrees with my view, you're off your rocker. I feel it supports my view just fine and I'm apparently not alone
5. There was never anything said about DOA not wanting me but even if that were so, that's not what I'm upset about. I'm upset they took an honest misunderstanding, blew it way out of proportion and made false accusations.

Becca - Sadly, I believe you hit the nail on the head.

Hane - Thanks, personally, I don't see the appeal in being rude but that could just be me :/

Dustbunnie - Thank you so much for that, it means an lot that you didn't doubt me :D

Anonymous said...

Actually evidence makes a whole lot of difference. :/ In the hypothetical situation that you DID keep the pm, I think it's a bit self-gratuitous to think that you're protecting the mod. If you presented the staff with that pm, and made it public like the rest of this, they would have to eat their words and recount your ban. Putting a patronizing spin on things isn't going to help. That mod is an able person who has enough mind to defend themselves if they so choose to, but it is not your decision to make for them. That's like saying a man MUST defend a woman from other men.It's condescending to think that they would not be able to stand up for themselves. They're probably not on the staff team anymore anyways, since they changed the mods.

I get that you read the announcement and then messed up and apologized, that's right of you. I'm not blind or suffering incompetence in my reading ability, thank you. I'm not saying you intentionally went around the rules, but I don't understand why you would even think asking permission for an awkwardly run GO would make any difference in the rules, especially since the rules explicitly say that GO hosts must collect money etc, etc...

The shady part I was referring to is the fact that Guls was running the thread but all the money was going to you, and you did the order? I was not referring to your intentions. I'm not trying to besmirch your good name here, but I can see where they're coming from. Imagine if they'd recount bans just for intentions. All the scammers and truly bad people would be saying they didn't INTEND for things to go so far! :/ And intentions really count for very little. Think of manslaughter, where intentions don't change the fact of what was done. Granted, DoA isn't real or serious like a court trial, but it's been a long time since intent was valuable. Actions define people, not intentions. Either way, manslaughter still gets you jail time. The same way breaking their rules gets you a standard consequence.

Maybe their writing was a bit harsh but the mods have a point, you really should have thought something was weird after being told "no" before. My point about the announcement was that it was clearly an announcement, and would be very difficult to misconstrue as rules, but since that happened it's a moot point. Guls is sweet and kind and probably wanted to help, but in the end, you are responsible for your own dealings and business. You're clearly a smart person, so I don't understand why you chose to do it that way.

Thank you for not deleting my post and addressing it properly. You're right, I will respectfully continue to disagree with you on how we see my last post. There's no changing that. But this is the internet here, if you're not upset about access to DoA, and instead value your good name and honor, then you've GOT to realize that's the way the world works. These things happen all the time. Not everyone is going to apologize for their faults or mishaps. That probably includes you at times, and me at times, and everyone on this planet, at times.

It's easy for people to gather their friends and be comforted endlessly with biased words. It's a lot harder to realize that nobody owes you an apology.

Ban said...

Anon - I have no plans to delete your comments any more than I plan on deleting mine. As you said, it is nice to surround ourselves with those of the same mind but we never get to solidify our own beliefs if we don't challenge them and see the POV of others. I don't begrudge you your opinion, you are free to voice it here or anywhere else you like.
In the end, I feel the mods handled this poorly and it is a sad world indeed if intentions and motivations count for nothing whether punishment is rendered or not and that too is shown in our justice system. If someone intentionally kills another, it is murder and the penalty is more strict than manslaughter ...
lastly, if that mod wanted to be named, I'm sure she could have spoken up on her own during the debate. She may not have needed me to protect her but I will do it just the same.

Anonymous said...

Glad to hear it, Ban :) I know I'm not going to be popular with my comments, but I do hope you'll get your access back after that super lengthy 2 years.

I'm not sure what to make of the mods or this whole situation, but all I can say is that it was really unfortunate.

megdalena said...

I'd just like to address this one little thing:

"Actions define people, not intentions."

I think this is subjective and depends on lots of things. But mainly trust.

Bans friends trust her, and so her intentions count for a lot. I love Ban. If she accidentally did something awful to me and we discussed the situation at length (as has been done with this issue) and she told me she didn't INTEND to I'd believe her.

It's obvious that the Mods don't trust her and so they don't put any weight into her intentions OR her ACTIONS when she asked if they could work around the rules and posted exactly what she and Guls were doing in the GO threads for all their customers to see.

Everyone can get all pissy about this and keep dragging it out and laying blame and pointing fingers, but I (and many of Bans friends) will go on believing that Bans intentions were good and that her actions reflected her good intentions as well as they could given her situation.

And I won't let any one tell me that my friend is a liar or an awful person because of this mishap.

keishi-chan said...

maybe it's not my place to say this (especially when this isn't my blog) but i really feel like i need to respond to the anon in the comments...

anon, you're talking about taking responsibility for your actions regardless of the intent, and yet i notice that you're posting anonymously, which, at least from my view, is highly hypocritical in this situation. there's absolutely no accountability for you, since you have cowardly chosen not to reveal your identity. you also came onto someone else's blog space and basically said to her, "i don't know why such an apparently smart person would act so stupidly." ban has been remarkably polite to the mods and all commenters on flickr and such, even after the accusations and comments that have basically told her, "you're a rulebreaker and you got what you deserve." but to come on her personal blog to say stuff like that? that takes balls, and not the good kind. you've just walked into her virtual party in her virtual living room and started spouting a somewhat negative opinion of her. and worse, you've done it anonymously, so that you don't have to take responsibility.

that's not cool, anon. you should at least have the decency to own up to your own comments.

that said, i think ban has shown a lot of courage and integrity in keeping that mod's identity to herself. saying, "well, she can stick up for herself" is, in my opinion, a very selfish attitude to take. making a sacrifice for someone else takes guts, and i applaud ban for that.

so kudos to you ban, and i hope i haven't stepped too far out of line here.

Kayjay said...

Hi, I saw your 'ban' and wondered why but like Dustbunnie I assumed you'd broken one of their draconian and self imposed rules. I think they're harsh treating you the same as someone who takes the money and runs with the doll. Surely if they wanted to 'punish' you a temporary ban of eg 6 months would suffice. Really sorry that you have experienced this but pleased I have found your blog :)

Su Wong said...

Ban, I don't want to turn your blog into a war zone, but since keishi posted, i will post to reply.

Keishi, it's anon here. My name is Su Wong. I am 29 and own a cat and a dog. I think it is a bit presumptuous to call me a coward. "Identity" matters very little on the internet if you think at a bigger scale. Your name may be casey, but there can be many other "Casey"s in the hobby. My name is not unique, there are many Su Wongs. I already know another "Su Wong" who likes dolls too. You will never meet me or know me. The internet is inherently anonymous, because anything can be fake. For all I know, you could be a 80 year old man who likes to make a fake profile online life as a younger girl. For all you know, I could be a 80 year old man who likes to make fake profiles as younger girls. People don't always have sensible motivations. That is why names do not matter.

Anyways, I did not write my post to insult Ban. I did not insult Ban anywhere. But you are correct, it does take something else to write an unpopular opinion. Especially when many other people will try to defend Ban. It might speak to her quality as a person to have many friends, but then people defend many things which I think are not worth defending (in general, not this specific instance). I believe Ban is capable, articulate, and can hold her own, which is why I questioned the situation. It pays her a compliment, and she has answered civilly, but I do not see myself as any less civil. Politeness is not equal to respect to me, I prefer straightforwardness.

Megdalena, that is kind of my point. Not that Ban is a liar, but that the mods obviously don't know her, so intention counts for nothing when it comes to whether they choose to ban. That is why asking the mods to be nicer based on intention does not make sense. They can only see the situation as a person who does not know Ban, and only see that Ban broke a rule. We talk about the same thing.

Anonymous said...

Sorry this happened Ban. You're right about one thing. Everyone that knows you, knows you for your honesty and overall just being a great person!! {{{hugs}}}
Christina in FL

April W. said...

I just read this entire thing. I am not even part of doa yet. I wasctrying to get in. I personally thing you got banned for one of the most stupidest things ever!!!

So you tried to help others get something they wanted and save them some money and they are acting like you robbed someone!! If this is how doa works maybe i dont want to be a part of that group at all. I am very sorry you had to go through this. You seem like a very nice lady.

I do agree that if this needed to punish you it should have been a couple months not years.

Anonymous said...

I was wondering why you had gotten your ban, as I am sure many wondered why I had gotten mine.
Of course, I can say nothing, because just because you are paranoid doesn't mean people aren't following you.
Keep your chin up. I know how you feel. Really I do.
But if I can come back, so can you.
Blessings.

Obat Penumbuh Rambut said...

Information is very good