Saturday, April 20, 2013

marketplace BAN !!!

Look, I'm famous ;)  Seriously, this is just unreal ...
Here's a link to my initial post on flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mousesnook/8662104804/in/photostream  you may want to read it first. Not all the comments but the opening explanation...

Originally Posted by Jescissa         
Dear Ban Sidhe,

I am writing to you on behalf of the moderation team regarding your status as a Dealer and your recent activities on the Marketplace.

You registered as a Dealer on Den of Angels in June 2012 and agreed to abide by the rules for Dealers and Representatives as outlined to you when you were registered.

It has been explained twice to you that Dealers and Reps may not use the Marketplace for professional or business purposes, the first was when you were first registered as a dealer and the second was shortly afterward when you asked that your GOs may be reinstated.

It has come to the attention of the moderators that not only are you once again involved in Enchanted Doll eyes GOs through the Marketplace, but that you have also encouraged other members to 'shill' for you and create a front indicating that they are the GO host when it is in fact yourself who is actually hosting, knowing full well that this is not permitted.

The moderators are disappointed that you are circumventing the rules in this way and encouraging other members to break rules also; members hosting GOs are entirely responsible for organization, collection of funds, sending payment to the dealer (or artist or company,) and shipping items from host to participant. By asking other members to act as a shill for you, you have risked their Marketplace standing as well as your own.

The moderators have considered this situation and discussed it at length and we have voted to remove your access to the DoA Marketplace. You may appeal your Marketplace ban after 17 April 2015, but there are no guarantees that Marketplace access will be restored following an appeal. If you have any questions, please post in Ask the Moderators so that any online available moderator can address you quickly.

Regards,
Jescissa, on behalf of the Den of Angels moderators
 
My response:
 
Hello,

I just received the following message in my inbox and I must admit, I am completely shocked!
"QUOTE INSERTED"
Back in June of 2012 Guls207 asked me about possibly running a GO for me as I was told I could not do so myself in the MP. I told her she would need to contact the moderators as I did not know if this was allowed. She then got back to me and told me she was given permission to do so - that as long as SHE was the one hosting the thread in the MP she could go through me to place the order. Neither one of us had any intentions of 'circumventing the rules'. Again, it was my understanding that she was given permission to do this by a moderator. I have never encouraged anyone to 'shill' for me. If you are talking about Christina in FL, I was merely giving her the same opportunity to host a GO I thought Guls207 had be allowed...
Personally, I'm upset you would ban me outright without first contacting me and giving me the benefit of the doubt or asking to hear my side of the story. I did not hide my involvement with these GOs - as you can see, both girls openly stated in their threads that they were going through me. And this was because we were lead to believe this was NOT against the rules.

I am hurt that anyone would think I would not only break the rules on purpose but would go out of my way to be sneaky about it or involve others and possibly get them in trouble. If Guls207 was never given permission to run a GO then I truly apologize for my involvement but I believe her when she says she got a moderator's permission.

I would appreciate it if someone would look into this further - I feel this ban is unjust and a complete misunderstanding,

Ban Sidhe
 
Their response:
 
Thank you for contacting us.

Guls207 had permission to run a GO but only according to the rules for GO hosts. Her specific question asked if members may run GOs for products carried for dealers as long as that member was not the dealer in question. The specific answer to this question is yes. The moderators can quote her correspondence with us and the exact response that she received.

If Guls207 intended to run a GO and have the dealer closely involved in the order, she did not ask that question and if she had she would have been informed that this would not be permitted.

The rules explain that GO hosts are personally responsible for;
collecting money,
  • placing and receiving the order,
  • sending items to participants.
The moderators found that you were receiving orders and payments from participants independently of Guls207 and sending ordered items directly to participants as they came in, and not sending the entire order to Guls207 to distribute. By doing so, you were actually running this Group Order, directly against the information you had received (twice) from moderators and also against the explicit rules for GO hosts.

Since you had been told directly by moderators that you could not run GOs through the Den of Angels Marketplace, you could have also approached the moderators to clarify that Guls207 had indeed been given permission to include you in the Group Order.

Members frequently run GOs for items carried by dealers and none of those dealers have been personally involved in those GOs as you have been with these.
      


My response:

UGH - this is just a mess and I honestly don't know where to go ... First let me apologize for my part of the confusion.

1. "It has been explained twice to you that Dealers and Reps may not use the Marketplace for professional or business purposes, the first was when you were first registered as a dealer and the second was shortly afterward when you asked that your GOs may be reinstated."
I NEVER intended to break the rules - if you look up my PMs you can see, in my first question about having my ED thread deleted, I did not know I couldn't run a GO in the MP. The statement in quotes says I was informed when I registered as a dealer, but I was not. I had read the rules on the Dealer Registration page on my own, which does not say where I have to post and I did not learn otherwise until after I'd run 9 of them. It was an honest error and apologized. I did question the reasoning and asked for re-consideration - I even had a moderator confess to me that 'I slip through the cracks' in this issue but that it would be better to just abide by the request to post in the NEWS section, which I promptly did. There was never any malice in my intentions, conversations or questions.

2. I never saw the message Guls207 received and I never thought to doubt her when she told me she'd gotten permission. I just assumed what she told me was true - that she was allowed to host the order in the MP then submit through me as a dealer. It would not have been possible for her to accept the money and then send it to ED as they only accept orders from their dealers and for her to have taken all the money and then transfer it to me would have cost everyone extra paypal fees... The order would have been sent to me and then I would have had to send it to her, which would have incurred more fees. We were not being deceitful, we were truly doing what was best for the members of the GO and again, I thought she had gotten specific permission to run it this way. I would not have gotten involved otherwise.

3. I am personally offended that I would be accused of encouraging others to 'shill' for me. None of you know me personally, none of you asked me to explain the situation ... I am an honest person and being accused of something that is NOT true is hurtful. Guls207 approached ME about running a GO and I think it's is obvious that she and I both tried to do the right thing. Her question to you may not have been specific enough, which caused this confusion but she did ask, which shows her true intentions and she did admit on her thread that she was going through me, which I feel shows we were both trying to obey the rules and believed we had gotten proper permission.

If you still feel the need to ban me, I will of course abide but I would appreciate it if you all would again consider this matter. I truly believe it is all just a misunderstanding.

PS: This would be my first ban since being on this forum - I've been a member since 2009 and have good standing. To my knowledge, no one has ever had issue with me, is it normal to give a two year ban ?


Sincerely
Ban Sidhe


Their Response:

Hello Ban Sidhe,

The moderators have discussed your post and decided to reply to you by sequentially responding to each phase of your post. This reply could have been posted by any online moderator since we all conferred together. There are no senior or junior moderators and equal weight should be given to posts and PMs from any Den of Angels moderator.


Quote Originally Posted by Ban Sidhe
I had read the rules on the Dealer Registration page on my own, which does not say where I have to post and I did not learn otherwise until after I'd run 9 of them. It was an honest error and apologized. I did question the reasoning and asked for re-consideration - I even had a moderator confess to me that 'I slip through the cracks' in this issue but that it would be better to just abide by the request to post in the NEWS section, which I promptly did. There was never any malice in my intentions, conversations or questions.
Firstly, rule #1 for Dealers and Reps states that “If you sell through an online shop or company website, you cannot post sales threads in the Marketplace subforums for your shop or company's stock. The Marketplaces are for individual sales, not company or dealer sales. We ask that you conduct your sales offsite using your company's website or your personal email” and rule #4 states “Post a thread in News to announce a new release, special promotion, or a limited/highly irregular pre-order period.”

Since you said that you had read the rules for Dealers and Reps prior to registering as a dealer, you will have read these rules which clearly explain that as a registered dealer you cannot use the Marketplace in your capacity as a dealer for Enchanted Doll eyes and that as you are running Group Orders with irregular pre-order periods you must post a thread in News to make announcements of new GOs.

Having read the rules for Dealers and Reps, but somehow missing these particular rules, you continued to post GO threads through the Marketplace. When you were formally registered as a dealer and your GO threads were moved out of the Marketplace, in accordance with the rules that you had read, you queried this and the rules were brought up to you. This is the first time a moderator personally brought the Dealer and Reps rules to your attention.

A little while later, you approached the moderators asking to host GOs through the Marketplace again, and were told that the rules would stand.

In all, there have been three instances where you would have been aware of these rules; the first time when you read the rules for Dealers and Reps on your own. The second time when Zagzagael brought them to your attention when you were registered as a dealer and your GOs were removed from the Marketplace, and a third time when I responded to your post saying that the rules would remain the same and the Marketplace would stay as hobby-sales only.

In relation to your mentioning that "a moderator confess[ed] to me that 'I slip through the cracks' in this issue but that it would be better to just abide by the request to post in the NEWS section," Zagzagael was quite clear in what she meant as she actually said;


Quote Originally Posted by Zagzagael
"we are not quite sure how this fell so far through the cracks. I'm sorry. You are now being registered as a dealer."
This is specifically in relation to the moderators not registering you as a dealer sooner, and does not mean that your particular situation is any different from any other official company dealer on this forum, registered or not. Your dealership does not come under any 'grey area'. It is a very plain and simple, black and white issue. You are an official dealer for Enchanted Doll eyes and therefore you are responsible for following the rules for dealers and representatives.

Zagzagael was also not making a request of you to post in the News section. She told you that you can advertise your services and website in a News subforum thread, in accordance with the rules for Dealers and Reps; which you have now confirmed you had read before you were registered. Zagzagael's words were more of an expectation for you to follow the Dealers and Reps rules than it ever was a request. If you had chosen not to post in News you would not be advertising your dealership on Den of Angels at all, which runs counter to your intentions as a dealer to continue accepting GOs on behalf of Enchanted Doll eyes.


Quote Originally Posted by Ban Sidhe
It would not have been possible for her to accept the money and then send it to ED as they only accept orders from their dealers and for her to have taken all the money and then transfer it to me would have cost everyone extra paypal fees...
The moderators fully understand how Enchanted Doll orders are operated. You have mentioned it previously and Zagzagael explained to you then that we understand but also explained to you that how Enchanted Doll chooses to arrange their sales with their dealers has no bearing on how GOs are organised here. There is no grey area, or 'falling through the cracks'.

There is absolutely no reason why a member could not run a GO for ED eyes on DoA and use you as their dealer, however the GO host is responsible for collecting the orders and money and sending them to the dealer. If it is not done in this way, there is no way that GOs for ED eyes can be held on DoA. Sending money and orders directly to the dealer without going through a GO host is essentially a personal order, which can be taken care of entirely through your own site.


Quote Originally Posted by Ban Sidhe
The order would have been sent to me and then I would have had to send it to her, which would have incurred more fees. We were not being deceitful, we were truly doing what was best for the members of the GO and again, I thought she had gotten specific permission to run it this way. I would not have gotten involved otherwise.
However, that is how a GO though Den of Angels is expected to be run, and has not been a problem for the other registered dealers on the forum. A GO host on Den of Angels is required to be responsible for collecting the money from participants, placing the order with the dealer, receiving the order from the dealer and sending items out to participants. If someone wants to host a GO through the DoA Marketplace, they are agreeing to perform each part of the role of host.

It is the role of the GO host to coordinate between dealer/company and the participants of the GO, the dealer should not be contacting participants directly or shipping orders to anyone other than the GO host.

Since the information you received from Guls207 did not agree with what you had been previously told by moderators, did not agree with what is written in the rules for Dealers and Reps and did not agree with the rules for GO hosts, the moderators feel strongly that you should have come to us directly and asked if Guls207 had informed you correctly. If you had, we could have told you that she was wrong and also dealt with the fact that she was mistaken directly with her before a GO had taken place.


Quote Originally Posted by Ban Sidhe
This would be my first ban since being on this forum - I've been a member since 2009 and have good standing. To my knowledge, no one has ever had issue with me, is it normal to give a two year ban?
All bans, Marketplace or full forum, are to be considered permanent. There is the option to appeal after two years, but this is not a guarantee that the ban will be lifted. This was explained to you in the PM you received from me. The moderators have discussed this issue at length and have voted for this consequence because of the seriousness of the situation. You told us yourself that you have read the rules for dealers and reps. You have discussed these rules with two moderators. You know from previous posts in this subforum that moderators are only too happy to answer member queries about the rules, you only needed to post here regarding Guls207's GO offer and you would have had a response within hours and all of this would have been avoided. The moderators are not psychic. We cannot answer questions we aren't asked.

The moderators also feel it important that you know that of all the registered dealers and company representatives on Den of Angels, you are the only one who has ever had any complaints about the rules for dealers/reps and the way GOs are organised on this forum. Den of Angels is not a democracy and the moderators make decisions about rules for the benefit of the majority of members. We will not consider revising or removing rules that suit the majority for the benefit of just one person.

We will accept the appeal of your Marketplace ban after 17 April 2015.


My final response:

I obviously have no choice but to accept the ban - nothing I have said seems to make a difference (intentions and motivations count for nothing) but I would like to make the following points before I drop this issue:


1. When I said I "read the rules on the Dealer Registration page on my own, which does not say where I have to post" - this is the thread I was referring to:
http://www.denofangels.com/forums/sh...ration-Phase-1! I'm not gonna tell you I didn't see the rules on a page that clearly states them. When my thread was removed - THAT was the first time I was told.

2. I asked the mods to reconsider the rule to have dealers post in the NEWS section because no one knows to look there for any sort of dealer sales, websites, etc. :
http://www.denofangels.com/forums/forum.php People think this section is only for new announcements and the like. I was told this rule would not be reconsidered. That would be the second time I was told - and again, both times I was apologetic for the mistake and polite.

3. Zagzagael was NOT the mod I was referring to - I questioned a different mod on my own as there CONTINUES to be a misunderstanding of everything I say and the circumstances in this case.

4. Maybe I should have questioned you about the response Guls got but I guess I'm just the trusting sort and I never thought to question her, as letting her run the GO through me actually made sense ...

5. I notice no one addressed the rude assumption that I did any of this on purpose or that I encouraged anyone to 'shill' for me ...


have a nice day



PS: just so you know - that part about being told I 'slip through the cracks' is not an exaggeration. ED only does business with their dealers and according to the mod I contacted on the side, the MP rules do not take into account my situation ...

Thursday, November 15, 2012

New Milky Eye Colors !

Mama Mary has updated the Milky color chart and there are 13 color changes. Click the ED page above to see the whole chart but these are the new colors :D

Saturday, September 3, 2011

MNF Modded Shiwoo ... SOLD

I totally forgot I had this head, it's been sitting in bubble wrap since spring of this year !!!  I need money for when the new FL gal comes out though, so I modded open the eyes last night and gave her/him a faceup :) 
I'm asking $125.00 plus shipping. You can see my thread on DOA here or email me here for further info. Oh yeah, and I'm including the apple green Dreaming Tree Studio eyes ;)

Monday, August 29, 2011

PukFee Clothing

Yep, I got off my  lazy butt and put up some of the PKF outfits I've made !

Friday, August 19, 2011

Faceups

I just added a page with examples of faceups (and mods) I've done.  Feel free to contact me if you have any questions about commissioning me ... :)

Tuesday, August 16, 2011

LittleFee Clothing

I've just put a bunch of dresses up on the LTF page and two types of PJs :)   Remember to look at the 'Fabric' page to see what I have available. Also remember, there is a $2.00 discount if you supply your own fabric.  Gently used baby clothes make EXCELLENT fabric for LTFs !!!

Monday, July 25, 2011

Jewelry

Many of you probably don't know this but I started my 'creative' career as a jewelry and bead maker. My sister and I founded the company Mossy Creek Designs and have sold our handmade polymer clay beads and beaded creations at bead shows in four states.

I started making BJD sized jewelry before my first doll arrived, an SD Lishe. Unfortunately, she was too much  for me and I've since traded her in for the smaller sizes. I'm am currently working on pieces for MSD sized dolls like my very own MiniFees. You can see a few of them by clicking the 'Jewelry' tab above. As always, feel free to contact me with any questions :)